Billy Eichner: Before Becoming "Billy on the Street"

In this episode of Family Troubles, I sit down with Emmy-nominated comedian, actor, writer, and Billy on the Street creator Billy Eichner to talk about his parents, coming out, grief, creativity, resilience, and the lasting power of unconditional love. His new audio memoir, Billy on Billy, reflects on his childhood, his long road to success, and the parents he credits with helping him become fully himself.

Billy shares how his parents gave him the freedom to pursue his dreams without shame, even when they had fears and struggles of their own. We also talk about his coming-out story, the small moments of acceptance he still remembers decades later, and why a parent’s encouragement can become an emotional safety net that lasts a lifetime.

Listen for more on:

• Why Billy believes his success came because of, rather than in spite of, his parents

• How raising a child without shame can build confidence, self-respect, and resilience

• Billy’s moving and funny story about coming out to his parents at age 20

• Why the small things parents say and do can stay with children for decades

• How his parents chose encouragement over projecting their own fears or disappointments

• The childhood storytelling contest that became an unforgettable example of his father’s support

• Why believing in who your child is can shape the person they become

Tune into this episode of Family Troubles for a warm, funny, and moving conversation with Billy Eichner about parenting, identity, grief, acceptance, and the extraordinary impact of letting a child know they are loved for exactly who they are.

Guest Links:
Billy on Billy: An Audio Memoir
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/billyeichner/?hl=en
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@billyeichner?lang=en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/billyonthestreettv

Dr. Joshua Coleman’s Links:
Website: http://www.drjoshuacoleman.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.josh.coleman
Substack: https://substack.com/@joshuacolemanphd
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrJoshColeman/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drjoshuacoleman/?trk=opento_sprofile_topcard
Twitter X: https://x.com/drjcoleman
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc-olRqS_o2xJlkpxWEEErg

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Okay, well, I'm very excited to have uh my next guest on Family Troubles podcast, Billy Eichner. Billy is an Emmy nominated comedian, actor, writer, creator of Billy on the Street, which is a big hit in my household, as well as co-writer and star of brose, as well as appearances in Lion King, American Horror Story, and many other shows. His new audio memoir, which is very fun and very interesting. I've been listening to it. Billy on Billy looks back at his childhood, his parents, his long road to success, and the experiences that helped shape him as a person and performer. So welcome, Billy. Very happy and honored to have you here.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Oh, thank you. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yeah, thank you. So, you know, you've spoken really warmly about your parents, how supportive they were. And I feel like, I mean, as a psychologist and somebody who specializes in estrangement, it's really so refreshing to hear somebody talk about the good family, how much they felt helped by their parents, how loving their parents, or how dedicated they were. And so it was very touching for me to hear you talk about them in such a such an affectionate way. And so um, can you tell me about that? And if you have any thoughts about why that isn't more of a common pathway to people talking these days?

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah, well, I'm that's why I'm so happy to put this book out into the world. It's an audiobook, it's available exclusively as an audiobook, just so people know. Um, and I say in the book that I think you can divide people uh into two categories people who were successful in spite of their parents, not encouraging them. Which which uh is a lot of people, a lot of people have that experience, and especially a lot of people who wanted to be artists or wanted to be creative, especially a lot of people who were LGBTQ.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Um I think you can divide people into people who were successful in spite of their parents and people who were successful because of their parents. And I very gratefully am someone who uh is successful because of their parents, because my my parents' default mode, even when they were scared or uncomfortable, or didn't totally understand me and what I wanted to do, and I think more often than not they did, but they weren't perfect, there weren't times we were you know completely aligned. We're all different people, right? And I was a creative artistic kid and they enjoyed entertainment from afar, but they were not creative types themselves.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Even so, their default mode was to always let me be me. Right. And just by loving me uh so deeply and unconditionally, and just being wildly, some might other parents might have said irrationally, impractically devoted to me being happy, to me being a creatively satisfied artistic kid, to me feeling like I could pursue my artistic dreams and be okay, whether or not it worked out. You know, all of that I think is very rare. And on top of it, um separately, I grew up in the 80s and 90s. It wasn't uh completely normalized to just be completely unconditionally loving towards your gay son. Right. And I I think I uh, you know, my parents raised me against the backdrop of the AIDS crisis in New York City in the 80s and 90s. Now I was a kid. I I think they knew I was gay already based on my behavior and some of my interests, not to generalize, but I think it was kind of obvious. And um, and and now and I wasn't like fully aware of what AIDS meant. You know, I wasn't a sexually active person at that point. However, they certainly were. Right. And in spite of all of that, they always encouraged me to be me. And they they raised me with, I think, a very unusual lack of shame.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

And I think a lot of gay men in particular, even now, you know, are raised with a lot of shame around who they are. And I always tell people, there are things I'm ashamed of, but being gay was never one of them.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Well, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

You know, and it's very rare. And I think um the last thing I'll say is the reason I wrote the book is because obviously, you know, I'm an actor, I'm a comedian, I'm a writer. And I think I started off the book assuming that my fans would want to hear me talk about Billy on the street and talk about my work. And I do do that. Yeah. But what I realized when I sat down to write it is that you can draw a line back from any success I've had in entertainment, which is a very cutthroat industry, especially if you're at all unconventional.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

You can draw a line back from my success to how much my parents love me. And that lack of shame, which gave me a lot of an unusual amount of self-respect and self-confidence from a young age, I think.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, that's that's that's lovely. Um, so when you came out to them, or how did you come out to them, or how did they respond when you did?

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Yeah, I tell the story. It's actually towards the end of my book because, in a way, even though I was technically closeted, I came out when I was 20 years old. Uh-huh. I was in theater school. I went to Northwestern, which has a big theater program, and I was in the musical theater program, and I did a lot of musicals. And again, I, although I was technically in the closet until I was 20, I think my parents always had a pretty good idea, you know, that this was shocked when you came out. They were not shocked. And I didn't think, and I I I knew that they knew, but you know, it was still 1999, and I boys weren't coming out of the closet in junior high school and high school the way they sometimes do now, more often than they did then. Not always, but more often. And um, so eventually, and it's actually a really, I think, a beautiful story because I'm 20 years old. My parents, uh, I grew up in New York City, which is another big part of my story. You know, I I wasn't isolated from seeing gay people, LGBTQ people. My mom's boss at work was gay when I was a kid and she loved him. You know, his name was Jim, and she would come home and say, Oh, Jim said the funniest thing today. And Jim said the funniest thing about his boyfriend today.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

You know, she talked about how it was that No, no, I was just just chuckling in in sympathy.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

Yeah, yeah. And so exactly. And so, like, you know, when you grew up in New York City, especially, you're exposed to all different types of people. You're not isolated, and and you're not scared as much, you know, of things that seem unconventional or aren't the norm. Um, even so, I was never worried about coming out to them, but I it's still a big piece of news to drop. And it's still, you know, a load off your shoulders emotionally. Like gay kids, LGBTQ kids, no matter how much more LGBTQ friendly certain parts of our world get, and certain parts don't, obviously, but no matter how much like the better parts of the world do become more accepting, a gay kid is still gonna have to come out, even if the parents know. It's like you someone eventually has to say it to sort of so that we all acknowledge it and move on. So, anyway, yeah, we get to college, um, and that's an emotional moment, even if you're not worried about how your parents are gonna react. And so we get to college and my parents fly out to see me in a in the musical. A funny thing happened on the way to the forum. And um, they flew out to see me in that. I was in it, a student production. And then the next night I went to Northwestern. So this is in Evanston, Illinois, um, at the Davis Street Fish Market, which I'm not sure if that's still there. Might be. Um, we went to dinner and we were just gonna, you know, it was just the three of us. I was an only child for the most part. I have an older half-brother, but we didn't grow up together. So I was raised very much like an only child, a lot of focus and attention on me and and luckily love. Um, and out of nowhere, we've never talked about it. Like we'd never talked about it. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't really date in high school girls or boys or anyone, you know. And out of nowhere, my mother goes, So are you dating anyone? Boy, girl, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Oh, good for her.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Just like that. And looking back now, I I I and I talked about this in the book, you know, boy, girl, whatever. It was such a generous way to word it, you know, in a really loving, empathetic way. And clearly she knew that um, and but wanted me to know that it was okay. And also I think was not worried about me being gay, was worried about me um maybe um uh having my uh gay identity being a block towards having a personal life.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

You know, and I think she wanted to know that I was dating someone, it didn't matter who. Like she wanted me to have like a healthy personal life, I think. That's sweet. Um, and so now that's how I look back on it. Now, of course, at the time I kind of looked down and was literally like, oh God, I think I said that out loud. You know, my parents and I were native New Yorkers and we were all very funny. Um and I think I just rolled my eyes and was like, oh Jesus. And I and I said to her, which was true, I said, no, mom, I'm not dating anyone, which was true. And then we finish our meal, and then they were driving me back to my apartment. I was a junior at that point, I was living off campus, and they drive me back to my apartment, and something came over me, and I said to my dad who was driving, I said, Okay, pull over. And he pulled over. Maybe they knew it was coming, I don't know. And I said, they pulled over, and I said, Well, as it turns out, I'm gay. And, you know, again, I wasn't, I wasn't scared. I didn't think they would have a bad reaction, and but it's still emotional, you know, it's a it's a big load off your shoulder. So like I start, I start crying, my mom starts crying, and um, she just tells me the only thing was this was 1999, and gay men did not have kids as often as they have now. And I did have a Jewish mother who I assumed wanted grandkids at some point, and I didn't know then how possible that would be.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

And I did say to her, that was the one thing that upset me. I said, I know you're gonna want grandkids, and I'm not sure how that's gonna happen, you know. And she was just crying and she was saying, Oh, we don't care, we just want you to be happy, we don't care about grandkids. And it was really lovely. And then my dad kind of, I think, although he knew, I think, you know, kind of made a last minute Hail Mary attempt to do the you know, the traditional dad thing. And he was like, Are you sure it's not a phase? And I literally threw my teeth, I literally immediately stopped crying and was literally just looked at him and was like, Dad, kind of was like, Come on, like we're not, we're like New Yorkers, we're like no bullshit types of people. My dad was from the Bronx, and I said to him, Dad, no, dad, you know it's not a phase. I know it's not a phase. And I said to them, I was like, all those Broadway shows you took me to, Barbara Streitsen concerts, Madonna concerts, Bent Medler, you know, Bernadette Peters on Broadway multiple times. I said, I said, you guys had to know. And my dad looked at me and he said in his Bronx accent, he said, We discussed the possibility. And I said, I bet you did. And we all laughed. And and that was my coming out story, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Oh, that's very sweet. It's very dear.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I'm I'm very, very lucky. And that's why this whole book that I wrote is really a love letter to them because I know how rare that is. And um, you know, I I've spoken to so many gay men over the years. I write a lot about gay men. I'm I've always been out publicly and professionally, yeah, since the second I stepped on a comedy stage for the first time 25 years ago, when it wasn't as as common as it is now at all. Yeah. And and it could still be a real obstacle to having success in in Hollywood. And it still can be, but it was much more so then. Um I thought about where what gave me this confidence, what gave me the resilience, this self-possession, this I was almost turned on to kind of make people deal with me and hear about my life, honestly. And I think I didn't realize it at the time, but looking back, it was all because my parents gave me all of that simply by providing this emotional safety net for me to feel like I could at least give it a shot, pursuing my dreams, and that it would be okay whether it worked out or not.

SPEAKER_02 13:12

Yeah, no, that's it's such a kind of uh gave you a certain kind of courage and resourcefulness that you might not have had otherwise. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

I think that's definitely true. Yeah, and I know that's rare. And you I listen to a lot of audiobooks, memoirs, especially from entertainers that I love. And so often they're about how they had to overcome a parent who told them not to go into show business or told them they weren't talented or were jealous or were envious of them the more successful they got and made their life hell, weren't proud of them, never said I love you. And I had the exact opposite story. And I think my story is about how, you know, I think tough love is kind of bullshit. You know, it's never worked for me. And and I I think my story is one of success coming out of love and not having to overcome trauma.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah, no, it sounds like it very much. Yeah, and I love how supportive they were about your coming out. My I have a gay son, he's an adult. And um and my my model is my father was uh in the Navy, and um when my brothers and I were young, he said something like, Look, I just want you guys to know if any of you turn out to be, of course, back then it wasn't gay, it was homosexual. He said, my complete support. Um, you know, one of my best friends, one of my best friends in the Navy was gay. I don't want anybody to, nobody, nobody's gonna be making fun of you in this household. Oh, wow. It was very sophisticated because this was back in the 60s. Very right. And so when my kids were my boys were coming up, you know, I just said the same thing to them that he did. And then, you know, one of my sons did turn out to be gay. He was, you know, he came out when he was 13 and he was a very successful adult at this point. But it was such a it's you know, what parents say and do and how they model is is so important.

SPEAKER_03 15:01

It's so important, and that's that's amazing, by the way. Um all of that. That's really ahead of their time, um, ahead of his time. And but I keep coming back to that in the book too, about how all these little moments that feel like throwaway moments, bits of a conversation I had with my parents, a movie we watched together that we never even talked about very much after that happened to be about gay men, or something that like that stayed in my head and in my heart that felt like insignificant at the time that I'm still talking about 40 years later. Something they said that stuck with me that made me feel like, okay, it's okay to be me. It's okay for me to be obsessed with Madonna or Barbara Streisand or Love Broadway as a kid. It's okay for me to want to get on stage and sing. It's okay for me to dance around the house to Madonna, like it's okay for me to pursue a career, you know, as an out gay performer at a time that wasn't as, you know, uh as easy. It's not easy now, but it's easier. Um and all of that, like those little moments, like something, something supportive or encouraging or comforting, my dad said while we watched a movie that still stick with me now. And I really think kids are always listening. And um the the feelings, you know, it sounds cheesy, but it's true. You know, my father passed away 15 years ago. My mother died when I was 20 in college, six months after that coming out story. She had a heart attack. I was 20 years old and she was 54. And neither one of my parents lived long enough to see my success professionally. Wow. And my mother obviously missed my whole adult life. And yet, and that's very sad, obviously, and I deal with that in the book in an honest way, but I will say how much they love me, those little things they said, the the shows they took me to, just all the letting me be me in all the big ways and small ways, that has stuck with me even in their absence. And so I think that's actually comforting for parents to know, you know, that your kids will remember, you know, and they'll remember, well they'll remember the bad stuff too. But hopefully, hopefully it's the good stuff that that lingers.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

Right, right, right, right. What are the things you understand about your mom and your dad now that you couldn't when you were up young before they died? I mean, as you're yeah, as you as you've matured and grown and that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

What do I understand about them?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

Yeah, the things that you look at them in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Of course.

SPEAKER_02 17:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Yeah. Well, it's tough because, you know, I wasn't, even though I was 32 and my dad died, my career hadn't taken off, and I was still very much struggling financially, and still felt like I wasn't a fully formed, self-possessed person, you know, and certainly when my mother died, I wasn't because I was 20. So, you know, one of the sad things is that you can't have conversations with them as an adult. You know, I didn't ever really get to talk to my parents with an adult perspective. Um, and so, but in spite of that, of course, I look back now and as loving as they were, you know, they were they were people. You know, my mom died, I think uh she had a heart attack. That's the official cause of death, but she also had this um on again, off again love affair with prescription diet pills, which back in the 80s and 90s were speed, really. And and and I absolutely think that that contributed to her having a heart attack at 54. It's not a common thing that happens to 54-year-olds. Her father died of a heart attack too, and he wasn't on on speed um many, you know, in the 70s. So there were also heart issues in the family, but but even so, you know, they weren't perfect people, and um, you know, everyone has issues, and yet um, so I realize now that of course, underneath it all, I think that my mom, especially, although she was this incredibly effusive, affectionate, loving person, just an inc wildly empathetic person, especially towards me, but really towards everyone. You know, the people that remember my mother that worked with her, that some of them have reached out to me since the book came out to say you completely captured your mother. She was this unbelievably sunny, warm, friendly, animated person, right? And that was genuinely who she was. And yet underneath it, there was a vulnerability there. There, I think there were things she was unhappy about. And we didn't talk about as we didn't talk about mental health as much back then. You know, I I I I begged my mother to get a therapist, and she just thought that was what a crazy person does. And and and I I think it could have saved her life if she did. And clearly I already realized she had issues back then because I I could have got a therapist, but but you know, it is interesting to have this. I'll tell you, thinking about them now, yes, of course, I see their imperfections and their humanity, their humanity, but I actually think the thing that really sticks out to me is like, wow, in spite of whatever their issues were, in spite of professional failures my father had before I came along, in spite of the fact that my mother's mother did not let her pursue an artistic career, even though she was an art history major, you know, and there were things, you know, that she wasn't able to do or thought she couldn't do because my grandmother wasn't supportive. In spite of that, they turned it all around on me and said, We're not gonna stop you. We're not gonna do what our parents did to us. You have talent, you have every right to chase after this. We weren't a rich family, we were middle-class people from Queens, New York. Um, we grew up in a small apartment. We lived like on top of each other. So we were very close emotionally and physically. But in spite of whatever shortcomings there were, they wanted me to always feel like I could pursue my dream and that I was talented enough to at least try. And I think that's a remarkably generous thing that they did because a lot of people, you know, my father had a business, a store that he owned that was, I believe, his dream, which failed that went bankrupt like when I was two years old. He could have projected a lot of bitterness onto me.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

My mother could have also in fear, kind of like, you know, because seeing that wanting you to have financial success and you want to be an entertainer. And right exactly.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

I mean, it's such a cutthroat business, and I was gay and this and that and the other thing. And yet, in spite of all of that, they made a conscious or subconscious decision to let their default mode always be to love me and encourage me. And um, again, They they didn't instill any shame in me. It's kind of a remarkable thing. And I know it's very rare. And that's why I think people, especially parents, the book is resonating so much with parents. And I don't, yeah, I don't have kids. I didn't write this as a parenting guide. But simply by me telling the stories about Jay and Debbie Eichner and how they raised me and how they navigated certain situations with me when I desperately wanted this or that, or I needed this or that. You know, how they navigated all of that and having this unconventional kid, especially for that era. Yeah. I think just by me being honest about that, it's really hitting people hard because it I'm not sitting here saying, like, I'm some parenting expert, and here's 10 things that you should do to raise your kid. So that's I don't, I'm not, I'm not, I'm an entertainer. And yet, just by telling these stories, I think it feels very real to people, as opposed to me just preaching from on high about, you know, all the things you need to do to be a perfect parent.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

Yeah, no, I completely agree. And you and it's such a fun book to to listen to because you you said it's not really you didn't really intend it as a a comedic piece, but it's actually super funny. And so yeah. So it's really good. Yeah, no, it's really fun to listen to. I'm really enjoying it. Um, can you tell the story um about your dad, Jay, the and you were doing this, the storytelling contest in the fourth grade? It's such a yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:24

Yeah, um the full story's in the book, so I don't know if I'll I'll do justice just spontaneously. But but the idea is that you know, I was in fourth grade and I was always a little performer, and I had a really good singing voice as a kid. That put me on stage. That's the first thing that put me on stage. So I was always the lead in the musical in my public schools in Queens, and and um I was never that into sports, you know. I tried, I joined little league and I would play football, but it just like wasn't my thing. There's a particular kind of embarrassment to being the tallest kid in your class, but still being really bad at basketball. Um so I was always like navigating that. But but what I did want to do is is be part of my school storytelling contest. And this was fourth grade in 1986, I believe. And um, so I joined, I think there was only one other boy, and it the rest was all girls, and you got up on stage and you told a story, and I uh an existing story, you know, uh a children's story or something. And I my story was The Nightingale by Hans Christian Anderson, and I won the contest at my own school, which led to me being in the district-wide storytelling contest. And so, which took place in a in a virtually empty school auditorium in Queens on a Saturday morning because you know this isn't like the football game, no one's going to watch the storytelling contest. Um, but I but it was important to me, and I went to this, and my parents went with me. And when the judges stood up at the end and said, the winner is Billy Eichner, my father, this six foot four man who was in the Korean War, this older straight man with prematurely gray hair from the Bronx, right? He shot up out of his seat and he threw his fist in the air and he yelled out, way to go. Right. And and I can still hear it in my head. And the in this empty auditorium, his voice was like bellowing and like bouncing around the room. And he shouted out the way you would think of a dad shouting out in a movie when his son gets, you know, shoots the final, you know, uh gets like the final point in a basketball game or you know, yeah, a varsity game of some sort. But this was the storytelling contest, right? And I was one of, if not the only boy in it. And he shouted out way to go like that. And I am telling you, I'm 47, and I was eight at the time, and I still remember that. And that way to go has really stuck with me for decades, you know. And I think that's it, it's like it came from a very deep place in him. He didn't know I was gonna win. Right. And that was his instinct was just to literally just like jump out of his seat. And he was so proud and he was so excited. And you know, years later in my 20s, when I started doing comedy in New York, I have a sketchy comedy show I wrote with a friend of mine, and I was outrageous on stage. And I was always out, you know, I had this like kind of loud confrontational character I had developed, which eventually becomes the Billy on the street show. But on stage, I was doing sketches about being gay, and I'm like, I had this sketch called Sex Talk, where in this comical way I would um, in a very exaggerated way, like get very worked up about how much I loved gay sex, right? And I'm in my, you know, by the way, and again, this is not that would still be a little provocative, you know, in certain places, like, but this is 2004. Wow. And my father would come to every single show. Wow. And now what he loved was the audience loved me. This was this was this would turn out to be the beginning of my career and people kind of looking at each other like, wait, who is this guy? And like I got my first agent out of the show, and my first kind of brush with success, it would still be another like seven years before I actually started making money. But this was my first sign to the point where he would walk around the audience in these little cabaret comedy theaters I was performing in on the far west side of Manhattan, and he would walk around the and my mother had passed away at this point, so he's alone. He's like this single man in his 70s, and he's walking around the theater showing people strangers who'd come to see the show. He would go up to them and say, he would show them my baby picture, and he would say, he would say, You see that? That's Billy, I'm the father. Because he was so proud. And these people would proceed to to watch a show where I am shouting about how much I love gay sex. So that just gives you a little window into my world and how amazing he was.

SPEAKER_02 28:28

Yeah, and I can see how that really was a resource for you to draw upon becoming an entertainer, which is cutthroat and difficult. And you had sounds like many years before you really got successful. So it sounds like that absolutely gave you a kind of courage that that you might not have had otherwise.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

So it did, you know. I never had a I never had a fight against him. And again, and to be clear, of course he was scared. He would voice his concern, you know, when I turned 30 and I still wasn't making it and I was struggling and I didn't have health insurance. I mean, you know, he cared about me. He also knew he was getting up there in years, you know, he was worried about my future. So it's not like he wasn't, you know, it's not like there were no moments of tension. But when push came to shove, even into my early 30s, when it still wasn't clear this was gonna work out for me, he would ultimately say, You gotta keep going. You gotta keep going. He thought I was talented and he believed in me. And he didn't want to be the reason I didn't make it. Wow. You know, if the world was gonna tell me I couldn't make it, if the business was gonna tell me there was no job for me, then okay, he couldn't control that. But he didn't want to be the reason, he didn't want to be the thing that stopped me. You know, and he really believed in me. And um that that gave me, as you said, the the courage, that gave me resilience, and it still does, like even in his even in his absence, because when that kind of self-reliance and self-possession is built into your system and your soul at a young age, it's it's there when you need it. You know, it's not always easy to find it, but it's there.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yeah. No, I agree. I think it's really well said. Thank you. Well, I know you have to have to get off, so well, that's probably a good place for us to stop. But I I highly recommend the audiobook. It's it's really wonderful, it's super funny, it's smart, it's great parenting advice. Uh I I'm not a big audiobook fan, but it but it's incredibly engaging. So I hope everyone's thank you so much.

SPEAKER_03 30:28

And um, I should tell people because it's only an audiobook, which is a bit unusual. It's on Audible and Spotify and Apple Books and uh Libro FM if you want to download it from an independent bookseller. So anywhere you get audiobooks.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Yeah. Highly recommended. Anyway, thanks so much for coming on, Billy.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Take care.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

And if you found this helpful, please follow the podcast and leave a review. It helps other people find the show who could benefit from it. If you want to learn more about my work, you can visit me at www.drjoshua Coleman.com. That is D R J O S H U A C O L E M E N dot com or subscribe to my substack, Family Troubles. Hope to see you in one of those places soon. Take care.